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TomatoUser
New Member
USA
8 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 27 2011 : 5:36:28 PM
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I just found out about your product, I haven't even tried the demo yet. From the description, it sounds great and will try it out. But, I want to get this question answered first. My company resells Visual Studio with each system we sell and each customer gets source code. Most projects have some custom additions or custom apps. And we develop the custom code on the machine that will get shipped to customer.
Now, if your product is as good as claimed, then my company should probably buy the product, but probably won't. If I decide I like it, I'll probably just buy it myself.
Now, the problem is, I may be working on several different customer projects intermitantly. Now, if I bought the product, I know I would need to uninstall it from the customer's machine before shipping. But, the question is how will it work out with your licensing? Like could I install it on several different machines, so long as I'm only using one at a time? Would I get flagged as being a pirate if I'm installing and installing the product many times?
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
18755 Posts |
Posted - Jul 28 2011 : 2:37:09 PM
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A single license allows you to install VA onto several machines, so long as it is only being used on one machine at a time. Since VA loads with the IDE, and works inside the IDE, this means only running the IDE on one machine at a time.
There are no problems with installing and uninstalling VA multiple times, so you don't have to worry about that.
The only obvious concern I can think of is if one of your customers then wants to try VA. Since VA had previously been installed and uninstalled on the machine they may only get a 3 day trial by default, rather than the standard 30 day trial. This is hardly a big problem though, and we can provide a trial license key if required. Just something to be vaguely aware of really.
Hopefully your trial of VA goes well. |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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TomatoUser
New Member
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2011 : 4:19:00 PM
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I like your product. My trial has ended. I was intending on trying out one of your competitors, Coderush. I have a Delphi background and miss the old Delphi version of Coderush. But, I also remember it having a thousand and one features not all of them being at least to me useful. Your product has what I most interested in, which was improved code completion for C++. Perhaps they have that too, and perhaps I should try it. But, I'm pretty impressed with what you have, so, I think I will just go with yours.
But, I'm am quite confused about your personal license verses standard license. Of course I know that I don't have to buy the upgrades when they come out. But, presumably, I will want to keep the product up to date if I'm continuing to use it. So it just seems to me to be a bizarre licensing model where I have one option to pay more now, but less in maintenance, or pay less now but more in maintenance. Presumably in the long term, paying more now will be a better option. But, then again, I can't be certain what the future will bring. For all I know, you could change licensing models. Or even go out of business though I certainly hope not. So, it seems that with the option of personal verses standard, I have to take a gamble of sorts, hoping that I pick the one that will be cheaper in the long run. This strikes as unusual.
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
18755 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2011 : 7:46:41 PM
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C++ is our primary focus, and I believe we compare very favourably with our competition. Of course, I am bound to say that  This is why we offer a trial version, so you can try Visual Assist X for yourself and see how well it works in your situation, and how well it suits your requirements.
If you purchase a personal license then you can keep on using the last build of VA that your license key covers for as long as you want. The same applies to a standard license, but with a standard license you get to renew your license if you wish.
I am not sure why you feel this is a bizarre model. Currently, the personal license is $99 for 6 months of updates. So to get 12 months of updates you would have to spend $198 for 2 successive personal licenses. This compares quite favourably with $249 for 12 months of updates, plus access to renewals with a standard license.
You might want to have a look at our Return on Investment page:
http://www.wholetomato.com/purchase/roi.asp
With any software purchase you are making a gamble that the company is going to remain in business, and that you are going to get bug fixes, updates and new features. We are still going strong, and our latest version offers initial support for VS11 Developer Preview. You can see how many years we have been offering updates from our history of builds pages, and also how the software has grown in scope over that time:
http://www.wholetomato.com/support/history.asp
Personally I would ask if you are going to program seriously in C++ for the next few years, or only for the next 6 months. This would then guide my purchasing decision in your position. |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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TomatoUser
New Member
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2011 : 12:56:08 AM
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I am not sure why you feel this is a bizarre model.
Can you name me a single other software product on the market for which you can purchase the same thing for two different pricing models, one more up front and the other more over time? I've never seen it before. Ever. And the first software development tool I ever bought was Turbo Pascal 1.0 in 1983.
Assuming purchase of updates every time, the rates come out like this:
time cost personal cost standard
initial $99 $249
6 mo $198 $249
1 yr $297 $298
1.5 yr $396 $298
2 yr $495 $347
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With any software purchase you are making a gamble that the company is going to remain in business,
True, but, for any other software product, the vendors possible demise doesn't play a part in deciding which version of a product to buy because no other product that I can think of has two different price models. If, hypothetically, you go out of business in 6 months, I'd be better to buy the personal. But if you stay in business at least 1.5 years, I'd be better off with the standard.
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You might want to have a look at our Return on Investment page:
To be perfectly honest, your product looks worth the investment in either price model, and if you only had one model -- either one -- I would've bought already. But, since you do have two models, well, then I might as well try to pick the best one, no? In short, I'm saying at least for me, if you didn't have such a bizarre model you would already have my money!
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Personally I would ask if you are going to program seriously in C++ for the next few years, or only for the next 6 months
Well, that's the thing. I've worked at the same company for 14 years. But, for most of that time, I've mainly done Delphi and Microsoft SQL Server projects. And some Visual BASIC (yech). This year however, I've had a fairly large C++ project. I'd rather be doing more C++ projects. But, I dunno.
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AdrianS
Senior Member
Canada
30 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2011 : 06:49:42 AM
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I have to chime in and point out that one of the nice aspects of the standard license is the fact that you can renew the maintenance anytime you want, even after your current license has expired. This typically means that you get more than 12 months of effective coverage, since you don't have to renew until an update that you want is available. More importantly, IMO, this policy is a good incentive for Whole Tomato to continue developing and producing updates. I find this to be a much better policy than software companies that require you to renew your support license annually and then don't provide any updates.
Of course, the personal license is attractive to users who don't expect to update often (or at all) and don't want to spend as much money upfront. |
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Mike ONeill
Tomato Guru
South Africa
103 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2011 : 08:37:29 AM
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My two penneth, I have been a VAX user for 5 years + , and find it a perfect tool , there are more complex tools and some that offer more bells and whistles , but VAX has everything you need without bloating the product and slowing down the IDE , quite an important factor . Witness the "oppositions" forum on the subject of performance of their recent V6 release.
Some of the competitors claim massive numbers of features , say reafctorings or code templates , but who really uses these on a daily basis.
Having the full license is probably the best as it gives you full access to all upgrades . They upgrade infrequnetly (approx 3 monthly) which to me is the sign of a mature and stable product.
I have tried most of the competiors and even have full licenses for several of them, but I still gravitate to VAX. Given that I code in C# predominatly there is fairly stiff competition out there . For C++ NOT using VAX is a no brainer.
From acost point of view VAX is about half the competitors who all seem to be $99 point .
Convinced ??
Cheers Mike |
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
18755 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2011 : 1:40:07 PM
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As I understand it the personal license was added for those people who felt that a full license was to expensive, but who still wanted access to Visual Assist X for home use, perhaps hobby programming.
I have often seen software where different versions have different pricing, so you have to ask the question what do I want, and what am I prepared to pay. This seems to be the same question you are looking at here, it is just framed in slightly different terms.
Since you are now working on a large C++ project, and your original post, to start this thread, was back in July, I would suggest a full license, simply because it looks likely that you are going to be working in C++ for more than 6 months, so having access to upgrades, if and when you want them, is likely to help. |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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TomatoUser
New Member
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2011 : 9:16:52 PM
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I have often seen software where different versions have different pricing,
Yeah, sure, different versions, like Pro, Enterprise, etc. But, very rarely multiple pricing models of different prices for *the same* product. Now, true, I have seen it on occasion, such as an education license. So that can be the same product with different prices. But for one, it is generally limited to academia, such as your Academic license. And for two, I've never, ever seen it where the alternative licenses have different renewal terms that would make it more expensive in the long run. So, when you say "I have often seen software where different versions have different pricing" you aren't really doing apples-to-apples comparison.
So, to do an apples-to-apples comparison, can you name another product that has multiple pricing models *for the same product*, not limited to only academia, for which one is lower cost initially but the other is lower cost over long term? I bet you can't find one.
But, nevertheless, I've decided to go ahead and buy the standard license. |
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TomatoUser
New Member
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2011 : 9:48:27 PM
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| Now that I'm a registered user, there is one thing I would like in the product, visual brace matching. I think Coderush draws visual lines. |
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
18755 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2011 : 1:09:14 PM
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Different products use different licensing and cost approaches. The license types on offer for Visual Assist X are an attempt to be helpful. I am glad you have now made a decision you are happy with.
Are you aware of the current support for highlighting matching bracets:
http://www.wholetomato.com/products/features/match.asp
We are considering adding a feature to draw vertical lines to further indicate matching brackets:
case=46223 |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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TomatoUser
New Member
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - Nov 28 2011 : 4:38:12 PM
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The license types on offer for Visual Assist X are an attempt to be helpful.
Well, lets just say that in my opinion, you didn't quite succeed with this goal... 
quote:
We are considering adding a feature to draw vertical lines to further indicate matching brackets:
case=46223
That would be great. Thanks. |
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Licensing question
