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Nobodo
Tomato Guru
126 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 15 2011 : 3:46:05 PM
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I would REALLY like to be able to not display regions in the VA Outline since so many people go crazy with regions around every single method or property (and some methods even have multiple regions inside them). To not have the ability to hide regions in the VA Outline makes the display VERY MUCH less useful.
I personally never use VA outline to move code items around (turn that drag/drop option off). I understand that the argument can be put forth that since you can drag/drop code in the window, the user needs to know where regions begin/end. Ok, if we are able to turn off the ability to drag/drop then perhaps give those of us who make that choice the ability to not display regions?
This has been discussed a few times before going back to 2008. The response has been "We are planning to implement an outline behavior definition file, so you will be able to control what to hide: case=19673"
Years have passed; what is the status of this?
Thanks,
Mark. |
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accord
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
3287 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2011 : 7:29:43 PM
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This is still on our list of things to do and is a fairly high priority feature request. I have added a comment to the case so devs will notice your post:
case=19673 |
Edited by - accord on Feb 15 2011 7:30:17 PM |
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Nobodo
Tomato Guru
126 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2011 : 12:40:44 PM
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Here is a real world example.
Note that this is a "really nice" example, because all the regions are named. Many developers do not name regions, so you can imagine what the VA Outline would look like!
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Nobodo
Tomato Guru
126 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2011 : 1:29:34 PM
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Here is an example of the same file as viewed in a competitor's tool that serves the same general purposes as VA Outline (AxTools)
Options turned on:
Sort by name (not sorting as appears in code), group by scope, group by type.
Note that the ability to not display regions, and to sort the DISPLAY (not the code itself) is EXTREMELY helpful.
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accord
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
3287 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2011 : 8:07:07 PM
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| I've updated the case with your ideas and the outline screenshot, thank you for sharing these. |
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sean
Whole Tomato Software
USA
2817 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2011 : 8:46:53 PM
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There is a VA registry value named OutlineFilterFlags.
Depending on what options you have already set, it probably currently has the value fffffffb (or ffffffff).
Exit VS and change the value to fffffefb (or fffffeff). This should prevent regions from appearing - hopefully without breaking anything.
Regarding display sort order, the alt+m list does support different sort orders and has the advantage over the outline that you can filter the list via text matching when you type. Regions can be excluded from the alt+m list via its context menu (menu present as of build 1840).
Is there a limitation of the alt+m list that makes you want to use the outline like a list?
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Nobodo
Tomato Guru
126 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2011 : 12:44:18 PM
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This is the first posting I've seen that mentions OutlineFilterFlags (no previous announcement or anything?????).
I just tested both settings you mentioned.
fffffefb - displays without regions
fffffeff - displays without regions, but with xml comments.
Thank you, this makes the outline MUCH more useful...
On the question about using alt+m list instead of VA Outline for a sortable list of objects....
The alt+m list is great as a replacement for the VS Nav Bar.
However, it is very limited in that it is only a dropdown and cannot be docked and viewed like other tool windows (as soon as you type a letter or click someplace the alt+m list disappears). If the alt+m list could be docked like the VA View and VA Outline, it would 100% eliminate the need for me to use VA Outline and would be greatly appreciated!
Personally, I don't use the VA Outline for dragging/dropping code items around, but that seems to be mostly what it was designed for. To me that is asking for a problem (drag/drop code placement), and I wouldn't want developers on my team using it for that. There are plenty of tools (example: Regionerate) that allow teams to develop templates for how they want code sorted and regioned, and then do that sorting at the click of a button. That kind of functionality kind of takes away the desire to drag/drop code.
Thanks,
Mark. |
Edited by - Nobodo on Feb 21 2011 12:52:56 PM |
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
19019 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2011 : 4:02:47 PM
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I have just added a FAQ entry for the OutlineFilterFlags registry key. Sometimes registry keys are added for experimental, or still under development features, but we don't post publicly about them for a little while, until we have some confidence that they are reliable.
VA Outline is designed to give an over view of the file, as it actually is. If you have "Auto Update" enabled, so that it tracks your current position in the file, then you will see another good reason for it being in the file order.
We are considering allowing VA Outline to be sorted into alphabetical order:
case=20370
which might help with what you are after here. |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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sean
Whole Tomato Software
USA
2817 Posts |
Posted - Feb 22 2011 : 4:27:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Nobodo
fffffefb - displays without regions
fffffeff - displays without regions, but with xml comments.
The comment flag is controlled via the context menu in the outline window.
quote:
The alt+m list is great as a replacement for the VS Nav Bar.
However, it is very limited in that it is only a dropdown and cannot be docked and viewed like other tool windows (as soon as you type a letter or click someplace the alt+m list disappears).
Interesting outlook - we see those as benefits rather than limitations. We consider it a waste of space to always have the list visible.
As far as filtering of the list in response to typing goes, do you have the same opinion of the Open File in Solution or Find Symbol in Solution dialogs? |
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Nobodo
Tomato Guru
126 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2011 : 11:27:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by feline
VA Outline is designed to give an over view of the file, as it actually is. If you have "Auto Update" enabled, so that it tracks your current position in the file, then you will see another good reason for it being in the file order.
I don't understand what you mean. There are similar tools that give options to view file contents in actual file order, but also give allow the user to do various types of sorting on the DISPLAY of file contents so the display is more meaningful. Those tools also show current position in the file just like VA Outline does, even if the file is not displayed in natural order. Using myself as an example, doing contracts for various companies... Often I do not have the option to change sorting order of the customer's files, or even change the oddball ways they choose to use regions around their code. Being able to at a glance at a toolwindow to see an alphabetical display of methods and properties in this unknown code is a godsend!
Here is an example; it is a portion of the display for a class I was working on yesterday.
In the above image (sorted, not natural file order) the green arrow indicates my current edit location, and the little clocks indicate places I have recently modified in the file. The little blue bars on the left indicate the natural location and size within the file of each of these edit locations and the color indicates how recently I made modifications there -- mouseover of a blue bar gives the name of the method/property/etc. that is indicated.
Below is the same area of the same class in VA Outline:
Note: I have applied registry changes as listed above in this thread, so the regions around every single method are not displaying.
The VA Outline display for this particular class is not so bad, because it JUST SO HAPPENS this customer grouped methods and properties together (but did not sort them). Since I can't change the order of the file (changing order makes the entire file show as modified when a code review is done, and customers frown on having to review an entire file when only one method changed), the VA Outline honestly isn't that helpful.
quote:
Originally posted by accord
quote:
The alt+m list is great as a replacement for the VS Nav Bar.
However, it is very limited in that it is only a dropdown and cannot be docked and viewed like other tool windows (as soon as you type a letter or click someplace the alt+m list disappears).
Interesting outlook - we see those as benefits rather than limitations. We consider it a waste of space to always have the list visible.
As far as filtering of the list in response to typing goes, do you have the same opinion of the Open File in Solution or Find Symbol in Solution dialogs?
Please see above. Especially when looking in unfamiliar code, it is EXTREMELY helpful to be able to see at a glance (not by viewing a dropdown) the IDEAL structure of the code being viewed. It makes navigation through the code while making edits a breeze, and helps TREMENDOUSLY in understanding how the code works.
OFIS and FSIS - I'm not sure what you mean by filtering when typing as that isn't discussed in this thread. Do I think these should be dockable windows? No -- I see these as more "call them when you need, then dismiss" type items. I don't really see the need for having them visible at all times. You are searching for something specific with the dialogs, so having them hang around wouldn't really serve a purpose.
HOWEVER -- a list of all methods/properties/etc. within the current file - now that is a reference list that I constantly look at while coding or just researching a file.
Thanks,
Mark. |
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sean
Whole Tomato Software
USA
2817 Posts |
Posted - Feb 25 2011 : 12:18:00 AM
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| Thanks for taking the time to explain. |
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support
Whole Tomato Software
5566 Posts |
Posted - Mar 17 2011 : 11:33:46 PM
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| Hiding regions in VA Outline is case=55322, which is implemented in build 1845 |
Whole Tomato Software, Inc. |
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outline behavior definition file
