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sneftel
Junior Member
Ireland
24 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 1:58:59 PM
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| When I see completion lists in Windows with nothing selected, I'm used to being able to press the down arrow to select the first completion, or the up arrow to select the last one. (Likewise if the first one is selected.) In VA, the down arrow works correctly here but the up arrow does not. Any chance of getting this behavior? |
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
19020 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 2:04:25 PM
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Which IDE and version of VA are you using?
What icons do these listboxes have? VA adds some new types of listbox that appear while typing, some of which work a little differently. Specifically if this is a suggestion listbox that is appearing without focus:
http://docs.wholetomato.com?W350
then they are designed not to interrupt your work flow, or get in the way, since they are just VA's best guess, so they disappear when you press the up arrow key. |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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sneftel
Junior Member
Ireland
24 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 2:42:13 PM
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| Yes, those are the ones (though the not-wrapping-around occurs with focused listboxes in VA as well). I can see the reasoning behind not wanting to disrupt workflow, but it seems a strange way to go about it. Surely users don't expect their up and down keys to each be intercepted by different controls? |
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sneftel
Junior Member
Ireland
24 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2007 : 2:43:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sneftel
intercepted by different controls
Effectively, that is. |
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
19020 Posts |
Posted - Jul 11 2007 : 1:39:26 PM
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Without VA installed the IDE completion listbox only appears under fairly limited, and well defined conditions. Specifically after you have typed a dot or ->, or after you have manually triggered it with CTRL-SPACE.
Under these conditions it is reasonable for the listbox to capture up and down arrow keys, and to wrap the list, so you cannot actually use up or down to move through the code until you have closed the list.
With VA suggestion listboxes they can and do appear all over the place, "at random", the trigger is typing and VA having something to suggest. So they can and do appear when you do not expect them, and when you are about to use the arrow keys to move up and down the code. So these listboxes are designed to be "low impact", they are there if you want them, but they should not get in the way.
Hopefully this makes sense. |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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sl@sh
Tomato Guru
Switzerland
204 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 03:44:08 AM
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To give an example of this: You move up and down the code, slightly modifying certain calls (e. g. by replacing one variable by another of a similar name), type just a few characters to fix sth, then want to go up or down the code again, to find the next instance you need to edit. Once you type just that one or two characters you need to change, a suggestion listbox pops up, and suddenly moving the caret up or down gets just a bit more complicated.
Thinking about this example makes me wonder though: How often do you move from the 'bottom' of your code to the 'top' when you want to do some minor edits? It would indeed be helpful to have the down key behave normally in that case! This is a case btw that I do encounter dozens of time a day, so it does bother me...
Just a thought: instead of mapping the 'down' key to navigating through a suggestion list, how about using SHIFT-'down'? And then SHIFT-'up' for the reverse? I mean, if you do see a suggestion list, you will have to stop for a moment and consider if that list does provide what you are looking for. It wouldn't be that much more effort to push 'SHIFT' while considering and then navigate through that list - or just release it again once you realize that you don't want suggestions. |
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
19020 Posts |
Posted - Jul 12 2007 : 06:53:57 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sl@sh
How often do you move from the 'bottom' of your code to the 'top' when you want to do some minor edits?
My initial answer would be "most of the time"
This may just be the way I structure my code, or work through it though. I spent years working in VIM, and using CTRL-P and CTRL-N, but mainly CTRL-P.
CTRL-P is the command for "look up from my current position through the code and try to work out what symbol I am typing" while CTRL-N looks down from the current position.
A bit like suggestion lists, but not as intuitive  So this has probably shaped how I structure my code, think about my code, and edit my code.
The idea of Shift+Arrow key to move into or through suggestion lists has come up before, for similar reasons. I agree, having the suggestion listbox capture some arrow key movements (the list does not wrap, so moving through the top or bottom closes it) can be unhelpful.
However if we required an unexpected keyboard combination to use the list the immediate result would be a long line of users wanting to know why the lists don't work any more. Experience suggests most users never read the manual, the FAQ, the forums, the tip of the day, or anything else for that matter. They just use VA, and hope that it will work for them. I can hardly blame them, I do the same thing myself
The current behaviour is a compromise. Not perfect, not ideal, but hopefully good enough most of the time for most people.
Having said that, if someone thinks up a better idea then please suggest it, we don't always think of everything |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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Make up work like down
