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SvenC
Tomato Guru
Germany
339 Posts |
 Posted - May 04 2009 : 1:28:56 PM
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Hi,
just installed VAX 1724 on my new Windows 7 RC installations (work PC x64 and home laptop x86).
Both do not work well with Visual C++ 6 when it comes to the intellisense drop down lists:
In a source file start typing so that an intellisense list opens.
Try to move the selection with the cursor up/down keys and see that the list is closed and instead the cursors moves in the source text.
This did work on Windows 7 beta but not with the release candidate any more. (I bugged this earlier on an intermediate Windows 7 version, but we decided to wait for the next offically available Windows 7 version - now it is available from MSDN/Technet and tomorrow for general public download)
Can you repro that? And even better, fix it?
Here are my current VAX settings:
VA_X.dll file version 10.5.1724.0 built 2009.05.01
MSDev.exe version 6.0.9782.2
Devshl.dll version 6.0.9782.0
Devedit.pkg version 6.0.9782.0
Font: Courier New 15(Pixels)
Comctl32.dll version 5.82.7100.0
Windows 7 6.1 Build 7100
4 processors (x86-64;
WOW64)
Platform: Win32 (x86)
Stable Includes:
V:\\PROGRAM FILES\\MICROSOFT SDK\\INCLUDE;
V:\\PROGRAM FILES\\MICROSOFT SDK\\INCLUDE\\MFC;
C:\\Program Files (x86)\\Microsoft Visual Studio\\VC98\\INCLUDE;
C:\\Program Files (x86)\\Microsoft Visual Studio\\VC98\\MFC\\INCLUDE;
C:\\Program Files (x86)\\Microsoft Visual Studio\\VC98\\ATL\\INCLUDE;
Other Includes:
Stable Source Directories:
C:\\Program Files (x86)\\Microsoft Visual Studio\\VC98\\MFC\\SRC;
C:\\Program Files (x86)\\Microsoft Visual Studio\\VC98\\MFC\\INCLUDE;
C:\\Program Files (x86)\\Microsoft Visual Studio\\VC98\\ATL\\INCLUDE;
C:\\Program Files (x86)\\Microsoft Visual Studio\\VC98\\CRT\\SRC;
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
19014 Posts |
Posted - May 04 2009 : 2:48:27 PM
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It is going to take me a day or two to check, since I don't currently have a win7 RC installed.
Have you considered trying the winXP emulation mode that win7 introduces? I have read a couple of articles on it, and it is based around Microsoft Virtual PC. Since Microsoft do not officially support VC6 under Vista or win7 this might be a good solution, since it is supposed to produce solid integration with the host OS. |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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SvenC
Tomato Guru
Germany
339 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2009 : 03:07:41 AM
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I will give VXP a try but I expect it to be much slower than running natively. Especially as VC6 runs without problems for me except the VAX intellisense.
So, if possible I would really prefer a fix for VC6 running natively on Win7 |
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SvenC
Tomato Guru
Germany
339 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2009 : 11:31:33 AM
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Just tried running VMWare and VXP guests at the same time: does not work.
So I would have to either convert my VMware images to VPC (and could not exchange test images with collegues any more - who use VMWare server as well) or use VMWare's unity feature only available in the VMWare workstation version.
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
19014 Posts |
Posted - May 05 2009 : 1:41:57 PM
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The winXP emulation feature was a nice idea while it lasted. I have asked our developers about this:
case=26657
For now you need to either disable VA in VC6 or run VC6 in a virtual machine. |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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SvenC
Tomato Guru
Germany
339 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2009 : 04:13:19 AM
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Any news about this case?
Have you been able to reproduce this on Windows 7 RC? |
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
19014 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2009 : 12:21:39 PM
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| I have reproduced the problem with Win7 RC, but unfortunately there is no progress so far on this problem. |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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myh0000
New Member
4 Posts |
Posted - May 26 2009 : 01:03:33 AM
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| VAX works in win7 beta, but it not works in win7 rc.... |
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SvenC
Tomato Guru
Germany
339 Posts |
Posted - May 26 2009 : 03:52:05 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by myh0000
VAX works in win7 beta, but it not works in win7 rc....
I would not go so far as saying VAX does not work in Win7 RC, but "only" the keyboard handling in intellisense drop down list in VC6 is not working.
Any progress here? |
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myh0000
New Member
4 Posts |
Posted - May 26 2009 : 06:18:41 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SvenC
quote:
Originally posted by myh0000
VAX works in win7 beta, but it not works in win7 rc....
I would not go so far as saying VAX does not work in Win7 RC, but "only" the keyboard handling in intellisense drop down list in VC6 is not working.
Any progress here?
it means intellisense with keyboard. |
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
19014 Posts |
Posted - May 26 2009 : 11:59:54 AM
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myh0000 are you using VC6 or some other IDE?
There is no progress to report yet. Please be aware that it is possible we will decide not to support VC6 under Windows 7. No decision has been made about this yet, it depends in part on how easy or hard this bug is to fix. Remember that Microsoft do not support VC6 under Vista or Windows 7. |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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myh0000
New Member
4 Posts |
Posted - May 26 2009 : 10:39:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by feline
myh0000 are you using VC6 or some other IDE?
There is no progress to report yet. Please be aware that it is possible we will decide not to support VC6 under Windows 7. No decision has been made about this yet, it depends in part on how easy or hard this bug is to fix. Remember that Microsoft do not support VC6 under Vista or Windows 7.
Yes, vc6. I think it can be fixed easy. |
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
19014 Posts |
Posted - May 27 2009 : 1:14:21 PM
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I remember an old saying "all bugs are easy to fix when you don't have to fix them yourself".
Remember we are hooking into the IDE without its knowledge or permission. Things are not always easy. Eventually we hope to find out if this is an easy fix or not. |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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myh0000
New Member
4 Posts |
Posted - May 31 2009 : 9:42:42 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by feline
I remember an old saying "all bugs are easy to fix when you don't have to fix them yourself".
Remember we are hooking into the IDE without its knowledge or permission. Things are not always easy. Eventually we hope to find out if this is an easy fix or not.
Excuse me for my simple reply. I fixed some problem about windows focus (or message) in windows 7 for my application, relations of window changed in win7, some messages or focus missed, so i think VAX matched the same problem by the appearance.
Ps: sorry about my poor english |
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
19014 Posts |
Posted - Jun 01 2009 : 1:44:21 PM
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This is very interesting. Would you be able to tell us what you did to fix this problem? Can you send any details to me via the form:
http://www.wholetomato.com/support/contact.asp
including this thread ID or URL in the description, so we can match it up. I can then pass them on to the developer who is looking at this problem. Hopefully it will help. |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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SvenC
Tomato Guru
Germany
339 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2009 : 10:40:28 AM
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| Did you get any hints from myh0000 and did it help to solve this issue? |
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
19014 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2009 : 3:34:28 PM
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| I don't think we have heard anything yet. I am not seeing any mention of it anywhere. |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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SvenC
Tomato Guru
Germany
339 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2009 : 10:08:54 AM
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Could the VAX devs reproduce the problem as well and do they have an idea what causes this change in behavior and even better how to fix it?
Maybe a PM to myh0000 could clarify if his workaround could be applied? I assume you have his email address as he is a registered member. |
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
19014 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2009 : 12:06:23 PM
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I have reproduced the problem here, so it is definitely confirmed, but I have no idea why this goes wrong.
Part of the problem is simply one of available resorces. There are lots of bugs competing for attention. |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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SvenC
Tomato Guru
Germany
339 Posts |
Posted - Jun 23 2009 : 4:01:17 PM
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| Almost everywhere the same problems of these days which just don't give more than 24 hours |
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muttbaha
New Member
8 Posts |
Posted - Jun 24 2009 : 12:02:04 AM
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this issue is really killing me...
VC6 becomes totally unusable due to this bug... |
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muttbaha
New Member
8 Posts |
Posted - Jul 09 2009 : 11:21:06 PM
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| Win7 RTM is going to be signed off (release to OEM) on 7/13, that is less than one week. Still no progrss in this issue? |
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
19014 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2009 : 3:40:23 PM
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| Unfortunately no progress is listed on this bug. It is being looked at, but it is not our most urgent priority at this time. |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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Radu
New Member
5 Posts |
Posted - Jul 13 2009 : 04:19:01 AM
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Is there anything we (the paying customers) can do to make this a more urgent priority?
I understand that running VS6 on Windows 7 is pushing the limits but, supported or not by Microsoft, the reality is that VS6 runs just fine on Windows 7 (including in the x64 version). In fact, as far as I know, Microsoft does not support VS6 anymore, regardless of the operating system.
Be that as it may, I would venture a guess that there still is a very significant Visual Assist + VS6 user base - maybe even more significant than for VS2005/2008. Your excellent product has given VS6 a new lease on life and made it, in many ways, a worthy competitor to the more modern versions of Visual Studio. In fact, I believe Visual Assist has a much higher value for VS6 users than it has for users of VS2005/2008.
Whilst there may be more Windows XP users than Windows Vista users of Visual Assist at the moment, I think the uptake of Windows 7 in both groups will be quite rapid. Windows 7 is superior to Windows Vista in so many ways, that both XP and Vista users are likely to migrate en-masse.
I think you will be faced with increasing pressure from your users/customers regarding this problem in the months to come. And, when it's really going to hit, it will be more like a tsunami than a wave. I think it would be prudent to try to pre-empt the crisis as much as possible.
Regards,
Radu Carlan
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Edited by - Radu on Jul 13 2009 05:00:01 AM |
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
19014 Posts |
Posted - Jul 13 2009 : 10:06:31 AM
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We are aware of this issue, but have not made a final decision yet about this. Partly it depends on how hard the problem is to fix, and partly it depends on how many users this ends up effecting.
When I first tried to get VC6 to install under Vista I ran into problems, and a quick web search reported that many people cannot get it to install at all. So the situation is not quite as clear cut as it might be. |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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Radu
New Member
5 Posts |
Posted - Jul 13 2009 : 6:48:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by feline
When I first tried to get VC6 to install under Vista I ran into problems, and a quick web search reported that many people cannot get it to install at all. So the situation is not quite as clear cut as it might be.
I assume by "problems" you mean a warning message displayed by the operating system saying that VS6 is unsupported (or known to have problems) under Vista/7. However, once past this message, VS6 installs and runs without any problems (except that it needs to run with elevated privileges). The same problem (and warning) applies to VS2005, btw.
Now, VS6 may have runtime problems if doing Java or Web development, but for C++ development it is still a very capable IDE. I grant you that its C++ compiler is outdated and not fully standards-compliant, but for all the legacy C/C++ code out there that needs to be maintained and enhanced, VS6 is still an invaluable tool.
Having said all this, the issue is not whether or not you (or other people on the web) have had "problems" installing or using VS6 on Vista or Windows 7. That's not really your problem to fix or address. There are many more people who have installed and are using VS6 successfully under Vista (and also plenty who are doing the same on Windows 7).
So, the real issue is, does/will Visual Assist for VS6 work under Windows 7?
The right approach is, as you've already mentioned, to identify how many of your paying customers are (or will be) affected by this problem. I expect you already have a pretty accurate estimate of the number of VS6 users of Visual Assist. I would venture a guess that it's more than 50% of the total number of Visual Assist users. So, the only question is, how many of them will be upgrading to Windows 7? Granted, this is a more difficult question to answer.
However, having confirmed the problem, what you need to decide is whether you are going to be proactive or reactive regarding this issue. You can decide to wait until complaints start flooding in (i.e. reactive), or you can decide to pre-empt the issue by looking at it now (i.e. proactive).
Either way, I think you owe it to your paying customers to have an official position (i.e. public statement) regarding your plans for supporting VS6 under Windows 7.
I think many customers who have their maintenance renewal coming up would appreciate an upfront answer regarding this issue.
For example, the company I work for has just renewed (i.e. paid for) its yearly Visual Assist maintenance contract and, although it's only seven licences (which is probably insignificant for you), I can assure you we will not be renewing it anymore if Visual Assist does not work in VS6 under Windows 7. In fact, given that the front page of your website plainly states that Visual Assist works in VS6 (with no limitations), I think come end of this month, when Windows 7 is expected to be RTM and published to MSDN subscribers, my company will be entitled to a pro-rata refund on its yearly maintenance.
Regards,
Radu Carlan
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Edited by - Radu on Jul 13 2009 7:19:40 PM |
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sean
Whole Tomato Software
USA
2817 Posts |
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Radu
New Member
5 Posts |
Posted - Jul 14 2009 : 05:02:17 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sean
If you would like to request a refund, you may do so by contacting the sales department via this page:
http://www.wholetomato.com/support/contact.asp
Thank you, Sean.
I obviously hope it will not come to this. It's not until the rest of the development team upgrades to Windows 7 that this will become a serious issue for us.
At this stage, I am the only one in the team using Windows 7. I have been using Windows 7 Beta since the beginning of the year without any problems. Unfortunately, I was forced to upgrade to the Release Candidate (because the Beta expired), and this is when I became affected by the problem.
I will try to plod along for the time being - I am using VS2008 to edit and VS6 to compile at this stage, but it's obviously very inconvenient. I don't think this workflow will be acceptable for the rest of the team.
All I can do at this stage is keep my fingers crossed and wish you good luck.
However, if there is anything you think I could help with (e.g. beta testing), don't hesitate to ask.
Regards,
Radu Carlan
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Edited by - Radu on Jul 14 2009 05:02:45 AM |
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
19014 Posts |
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sean
Whole Tomato Software
USA
2817 Posts |
Posted - Jul 14 2009 : 5:05:38 PM
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Visual Assist does not work with VC6 on Win7.
We want to support vc6 on Win7 but don't have the resources to look into the problem at this time.
We don't want to say that it won't be supported unless we have gotten in there and found no solution to the problem. Hopefully, it will just be a quick fix.
We will dedicate time to evaluate the problem after Microsoft has announced that a final Win7 build is available.
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muttbaha
New Member
8 Posts |
Posted - Jul 15 2009 : 01:33:19 AM
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"unusable" sounds quite important, in comparison to most "bugs/defects/improvements".
I think the real question that Radu and me (and all the potential VS6 users who may upgrade to Windows 7) want to ask is, "why is this 'unusable' issue put in low priority (since it's claimed as 'no resource')?"
I'm not sure if this is caused by Windows 7's bug or 'feature (i.e., behavior change)', but if you study it now, you may have the chance to notify Microsoft and let them fix it (or let you know how to workaround it). But if you don't do it now, after RTM being signed off you'll be all on your own because MSFT won't change it. |
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1724 intellisense not working with VS6 on Win7
