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LarryLeonard
Tomato Guru
USA
1041 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 14 2004 : 08:39:56 AM
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I have a local variable named sInputPath. So when I type 's', I get a 'Bits o Code' listbox with five or six entries. When I next type 'I', the listbox correctly narrows down to 'sInputPath'. Wonderful!
Now, to accept that entry, I could, based on my completion setting, hit TAB or RETURN. If I instead hit 'n', the listbox disappears, and the 'sInputPath' is not inserted. I don't get that - shouldn't the value be inserted??
Oh, well, hell, never mind. Even though I reparsed the file, and re-tried it many times before posting this message, now that I go back to check something, it behaves completely differently now. Sigh.
Once again, I didn't wait three or four minutes for VAX to do whatever the hell magic it does *BEYOND* what it does when you re-parse. I know I keep harping on this, but VAX has GOT to provide MORE visual feedback as to what it's doing AS it's doing it, AND when it's frigging DONE with whatever it's doing. Otherwise, we're just guessing in the dark here... What's the point of posting a message here when the damn behavior changes WHILE you're posting???
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
18939 Posts |
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support
Whole Tomato Software
5566 Posts |
Posted - Jun 15 2004 : 7:10:27 PM
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We cannot argue about the lack of feedback on parsing, but we will clarify a "bits o' code" listbox. Really this is just a technicality...
Bits o' code appear prior to typing the first character of a symbol. They appear when you start to retype a nearby line. Suggestion listboxes appear when you type characters, and these listboxes contain only symbols, ie not bits of code.
When a suggestion listbox contains sInputPath after you type "si", you must press Tab or Return to accept (per the options dialog.) Pressing "n" does not accept. Doing so would wreak havoc on the rest of your typing. We need to let you type sInputPath if you choose to do so.
Suggestion listboxes come and go. Sometimes VA X needs to clear a listbox because the IDE does something that makes VA X nervous. VA X cleans up its mess so the IDE can do whatever it needs to do -- typically updating of the display. VA X comes back to life when you start typing. |
Whole Tomato Software, Inc. |
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LarryLeonard
Tomato Guru
USA
1041 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2004 : 09:46:34 AM
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(Oh, it's a suggestion listbox. But I thought we were told the tomato icons only appear in "bits o' code" listboxes. Maybe I am mis-remembering...)
Anyway, you're missing my main point. I accept on faith (because you say so, and you think about this stuff all day), that "Pressing 'n' does not accept... [because that] would wreak havoc on the rest of your typing". I'm not asking it to accept; I'm asking it to not disappear: the listbox needs to stick around after I type the "n"! If VAX needs to clear this listbox because I typed the "n", and it got nervous, then that's what I'd call a bug in a program of mine.
Also, you didn't address the whole "wait three minutes and VAX will do something entirely different" issue. I've noticed several threads that have referred to this effect. Obviously, *something* is going on in the background separate from "reparsing", and whatever it is, it ain't workin' right, and least on my PC. Is there some visual feedback you can give us (even something ugly) that would let us see when this mystery processing is started and stopped? It would make it a whale of a lot easier to understand (in the sense of, my mental model of what's going on) this program.
Thanks.
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Edited by - LarryLeonard on Jun 16 2004 09:48:23 AM |
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support
Whole Tomato Software
5566 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2004 : 12:36:53 PM
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Suggestion listboxes contain bits o' code, symbols or autotext. You describe one that contains symbols. Minor nit.
We acknowledge your main point. Your request to keep a suggestion listbox when you type 'n' is reasonable. The deal is, "sin" is defined globally. VA X thinks you might want to type "sin" so it refrains from suggesting anything at that point. Type another letter and VA X realizes otherwise.
The current behavior is by design. VA X does not suggest if what you type exists. Perhaps we need to change this.
We will think about the feedback issue. We typically prefer to make VA X work as expected, instead of displaying messages, so you can just do your work. |
Whole Tomato Software, Inc. |
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LarryLeonard
Tomato Guru
USA
1041 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2004 : 1:40:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by support
Suggestion listboxes contain bits o' code, symbols or autotext. You describe one that contains symbols. Minor nit.
I love nits; I'm one of those annoying people that tries to be as precise as possible in my writing. My goal is to learn your nomenclature, and use it. The problem is, every time I think I've got it, I don't. The cause of this problem is probably some combination of (a) my crappy memory, (b) VAX's nomenclature being too confusing, and possibly (c) you not always being rigidly precise when you use your nomenclature. I think at this point - and this is abhorrent to my very nature - I'll just give it my best shot, and let you try to decipher what I'm really talking about.quote:
Originally posted by support
We acknowledge your main point. Your request to keep a suggestion listbox when you type 'n' is reasonable. The deal is, "sin" is defined globally. VA X thinks you might want to type "sin" so it refrains from suggesting anything at that point. Type another letter and VA X realizes otherwise. The current behavior is by design. VA X does not suggest if what you type exists. Perhaps we need to change this.
Yeah, I would say definitely, you do. "sin" is globally defined? Well, hell, probably every n-letter combination (where 'n' is small) is globally defined somewhere.
Let's think about this for a second. What exactly do I gain by the current behavior? If I type in 'tom', and the Microsoft Windows Toaster-Oven API has a global method called 'tom()', would I rather see:
1). Just the word 'tom', on the assumption that I trying to invoke 'toaster-oven mode'?
2). A listbox of choices, including 'tom', but also including my local variable 'tomato'?
I guess I'm not seeing what possible benefit I get from VAX not suggesting just because the word fragment I've entered happens to be defined somewhere. How does that help me?
quote:
Originally posted by support
We will think about the feedback issue. We typically prefer to make VA X work as expected, instead of displaying messages, so you can just do your work.
You've hit the nail on the head! For VAX to work as I expect it to, I have to know what to expect, and to know what to expect, I have to have a mental model of how the thing works, which means VAX has to tell me what it's doing! Because (as I'm sure you're painfully aware of by now) what you expect it to do, and what I expect it to do, can be two different things.
Maybe VAX needs a Verbose checkbox... ?
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support
Whole Tomato Software
5566 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2004 : 2:02:17 PM
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If our memory serves us correctly, our intent was to keep chatter to an absolute minimum. Might be too minimal in this case. We will consider keeping suggestions open in this case.
A verbose checkbox? You know we don't like options. 
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Whole Tomato Software, Inc. |
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Cezariusz
Tomato Guru
Poland
244 Posts |
Posted - Jun 17 2004 : 05:14:42 AM
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| A verbose checkbox - I like it, I like to know what the software is doing down to every detail. I hate when a program writes something like "Initializing, please wait...". Hell, if it takes 2 minutes to initialize, then write what exactly are you doing - maybe I'll be able to optimize it by disabling some unnecessary options (it isn't about VA). |
Cezariusz Marek
https://midicat.net/ |
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