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fpaynter
Junior Member
13 Posts |
 Posted - Aug 26 2005 : 7:44:38 PM
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VA_X.dll file version 10.1.1418.0 built 2005.06.24
Licensed to:
VA X:
VAOpsWin.dll version 1.2.0.4
MSDev.exe version 6.0.9782.2
Devshl.dll version 6.0.9782.0
Devedit.pkg version 6.0.9782.0
Font: Courier -13(Pixels)
Comctl32.dll version 5.82.2900.2180
WindowsNT 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 2
Single processor
Using VC++6.0 vssp5
Quite often when I drag something from one window to another, I get an uncommanded window scroll (vertical and/or horizontal) in the destination window. I also noted that if I move the cursor back into the source window (as if I was going to paste there too) the source window will also exhibit an uncommanded scroll. This is very annoying when the destination window scrolls horizontally, thereby hiding one or more left-most columns.
I remember this was a problem with VA 6, and it was fixed in VA 6.0.0.1104 (I know this because I was still using this version until just a few weeks ago when I upgraded to VA X  )
Any thoughts?
Frank
Platform: Win32 (x86)
Stable Includes:
C:\\PROGRAM FILES\\MICROSOFT SDK\\INCLUDE;
C:\\Program Files\\Microsoft Visual Studio\\VC98\\INCLUDE;
C:\\Program Files\\Microsoft Visual Studio\\VC98\\MFC\\INCLUDE;
C:\\Program Files\\Microsoft Visual Studio\\VC98\\ATL\\INCLUDE;
Library Includes:
C:\\Program Files\\Microsoft Visual Studio\\VC98\\MFC\\SRC;
C:\\Program Files\\Microsoft Visual Studio\\VC98\\MFC\\INCLUDE;
C:\\Program Files\\Microsoft Visual Studio\\VC98\\ATL\\INCLUDE;
C:\\Program Files\\Microsoft Visual Studio\\VC98\\CRT\\SRC;
Other Includes:
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
19021 Posts |
Posted - Aug 27 2005 : 1:43:00 PM
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using VC6 and VAX 1418 if i have two cpp files open, and resize their windows so that i have two vertical windows, next to each other, and then drag some code from the right hand window to the left hand window then i sometimes get a vertical scroll in the destination window.
is this what you are doing? so far i have not been able to reproduce an unwanted horizontal scrolling. i can get horizontal scrolling to occur by moving the mouse to the edge of the window, but this is a slow and controlled scroll event, in response to what i am doing. |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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fpaynter
Junior Member
13 Posts |
Posted - Sep 21 2005 : 8:48:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by feline
using VC6 and VAX 1418 if i have two cpp files open, and resize their windows so that i have two vertical windows, next to each other, and then drag some code from the right hand window to the left hand window then i sometimes get a vertical scroll in the destination window.
is this what you are doing? so far i have not been able to reproduce an unwanted horizontal scrolling. i can get horizontal scrolling to occur by moving the mouse to the edge of the window, but this is a slow and controlled scroll event, in response to what i am doing.
In general, yes this is what I was doing - two .cpp windows side by side with no overlap. Tonight I tried this again, and duplicated the vertical scroll phenomenon you described, but couldn't make it jump horizontally (I am pretty sure it did, but couldn't make it happen tonight)
If I highlight something in the right window and drag it to the left one, the left window jumps vertically according to some rule that I cannot yet figure out. Howver, if I then drag the highlighted item back into the source window, the source window jumps vertically so as to place the highlighted selection back under the mouse cursor. Its as if the source window remembers where the selected text was in relation to the mouse cursor and wants to re-establish that same relationship when the mouse re-enters the source window - really strange!
There has to be a second window for this to work (i.e. there must be a change of focus and I think the second window must be a legal drop target for the dragged-in selection). If you simply drag a selection out of a single window and back in again at a different vertical location, nothing will happen. However, if you have two windows open, dragging a selection out of one window, then into and out of (without stopping) a second window and then back into the source window at a different vetical location, you'll get the vertical jump every time. The passed-over second window will also jump, but I haven't figured out the rule yet ;-).
Hope this helps, |
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fpaynter
Junior Member
13 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2005 : 9:57:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by fpaynter
quote:
Originally posted by feline
using VC6 and VAX 1418 if i have two cpp files open, and resize their windows so that i have two vertical windows, next to each other, and then drag some code from the right hand window to the left hand window then i sometimes get a vertical scroll in the destination window.
is this what you are doing? so far i have not been able to reproduce an unwanted horizontal scrolling. i can get horizontal scrolling to occur by moving the mouse to the edge of the window, but this is a slow and controlled scroll event, in response to what i am doing.
In general, yes this is what I was doing - two .cpp windows side by side with no overlap. Tonight I tried this again, and duplicated the vertical scroll phenomenon you described, but couldn't make it jump horizontally (I am pretty sure it did, but couldn't make it happen tonight)
If I highlight something in the right window and drag it to the left one, the left window jumps vertically according to some rule that I cannot yet figure out. Howver, if I then drag the highlighted item back into the source window, the source window jumps vertically so as to place the highlighted selection back under the mouse cursor. Its as if the source window remembers where the selected text was in relation to the mouse cursor and wants to re-establish that same relationship when the mouse re-enters the source window - really strange!
There has to be a second window for this to work (i.e. there must be a change of focus and I think the second window must be a legal drop target for the dragged-in selection). If you simply drag a selection out of a single window and back in again at a different vertical location, nothing will happen. However, if you have two windows open, dragging a selection out of one window, then into and out of (without stopping) a second window and then back into the source window at a different vetical location, you'll get the vertical jump every time. The passed-over second window will also jump, but I haven't figured out the rule yet ;-).
Hope this helps,
The way to reliably get the destination window to jump horizontally is to arrange the source and destination windows vertically, say with the source window toward the bottom of the screen and the destination window toward the top, with about 50% overlap between the top and bottom windows (I think the overlap is required, but I'm not absolutely sure). Now select some text in the source window and drag it into the destination window. When the focus changes, the destination window text will jump horizontally. In contrast to the vertical-jump case, the source window doesn't jump horizontally or vertically when I move the mouse back into the source window w/o dropping the dragged text in the destination window.
Hope this helps |
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
19021 Posts |
Posted - Sep 24 2005 : 6:50:33 PM
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after about 20 minutes playing with this i have made it happen a few times, but i cannot make this happen on demand.
the level of intending of the code in the destination window seems to be a factor, but not a consistent one.
i was testing with VC6 and VA 1423
how reproducible is this for you? |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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fpaynter
Junior Member
13 Posts |
Posted - Sep 27 2005 : 6:40:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by feline
after about 20 minutes playing with this i have made it happen a few times, but i cannot make this happen on demand.
the level of intending of the code in the destination window seems to be a factor, but not a consistent one.
i was testing with VC6 and VA 1423
how reproducible is this for you?
I can get the vertical jump to happen just about every time, with two windows arranged side-by-side. With two windows arranged top/bottom, I can get the horizontal jump to happen about half the time.
I notice you are using build 1423, while I am using 1418. I looked around a bit for 1423 on the download page, but couldn't find it. Was there a change between 1418 and 1423 that might explain the different symptoms we are seeing?
TIA,
Frank
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
19021 Posts |
Posted - Sep 28 2005 : 2:48:28 PM
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you can download the later builds from the public beta section of this forum. just remember that these are beta versions.
a lot of work has been done, but i don't know if any of it is relevant to this. could you post a screen shot of the window layout you are using? i am wondering if i am doing something different. there seems to be some debate about how much overlap is required. |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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fpaynter
Junior Member
13 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2005 : 8:58:35 PM
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Here's two screenshots - one for the vertical jump test (windows arranged horizontally adjacent) and one for the horizontal jump (windows arranged vertically adjacent). Note on the horizontal jump layout that the class window on the left suffered an uncommanded horizontal scroll when my mouse cursor went through there on my way from the bottom to top window, dragging some text ;-(
Tonight when working with this, I found that I can get uncommanded vertical jumps with either arrangement, but the horizontal jumps are easier to produce with the top/bottom arrangement. However, tonight I was only getting about a 20-30% success rate in producing uncommanded horizontal jumps. To reproduce, select some text from one window and drag it to the other window, but don't drop it. Instead, just drag it back and forth between the windows, and the uncommanded jumps will happen as the cursor moves across the boundary. I'm beginning to think it might have something to do with the addition/removal of the context bars to/from the active edit window (or it could just be my imagination).
Frank
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jpizzi
Tomato Guru
USA
642 Posts |
Posted - Oct 13 2005 : 11:07:51 PM
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You have to either post your images on a public server or e-mail them to support so that they can be posted.
Alternatively, you could open up your C drive so that we could all access it.  |
Joe Pizzi |
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
19021 Posts |
Posted - Oct 14 2005 : 2:52:16 PM
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you can setup a free account at http://photobucket.com/ and post pictures there, then post the url of the pictures here. i don't know how good they are, but they are sufficient for what i need.
i have discovered that hovering the mouse over the scroll bar / window edge while dragging text causes the IDE to scroll the window. this seems to be by design, since it is the only way to move up and down the code while scrolling.
depending on exactly how you are doing this, the speed, etc, this could be causing at least some of the scrolling events. this would help to explain the random aspect of all of this.
the real test is, once you get a reproducible case (i know how hard that can be) does it still happen with VA disabled? |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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fpaynter
Junior Member
13 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2005 : 09:30:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jpizzi
You have to either post your images on a public server or e-mail them to support so that they can be posted.
Alternatively, you could open up your C drive so that we could all access it.
I thought seriously about opening up my C:\\ drive [NOT!] but decided it would be more convenient to email the images to support, so I just sent them off. Interestingly enough, the forum software provides a function for inserting images in a post, and it worked fine as far as I could tell - they are visible to me as 'inline'images.
Frank
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fpaynter
Junior Member
13 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2005 : 09:45:35 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by feline
you can setup a free account at http://photobucket.com/ and post pictures there, then post the url of the pictures here. i don't know how good they are, but they are sufficient for what i need.
i have discovered that hovering the mouse over the scroll bar / window edge while dragging text causes the IDE to scroll the window. this seems to be by design, since it is the only way to move up and down the code while scrolling.
depending on exactly how you are doing this, the speed, etc, this could be causing at least some of the scrolling events. this would help to explain the random aspect of all of this.
the real test is, once you get a reproducible case (i know how hard that can be) does it still happen with VA disabled?
I also discovered the 'feature' of hovering the mouse over the scrollbar area, and I agree this is a feature rather than a bug. The uncommanded jumps appear to be independent of the scrollbar area feature, and in my tests I have made a point of moving through this area rapidly.
Regarding problem reproduction and VA disable/re-enable: I can reproduce the vertical jump at will. All you have to do is place two windows side-by-side, select some text in one window and drag it into the other. The jump will take place as soon as the cursor moves into the new window. Then, without dropping the selected text, drag it back into the source window at a different vertical location - the source window will jump as well.
Regarding the issue of whether the jumnp still occurs with VA disabled: Yes, it does. However, this was also the case with the previous vertical/horizontal jump bug fixed back in VA 6.0.0.1104. IIRC, I went through a long (and very similar) process back then, culminating finally in the realization on the part of your software guy that it was in fact a VA bug. Shortly after that, it was fixed.
Frank
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fpaynter
Junior Member
13 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2005 : 10:37:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by feline
the real test is, once you get a reproducible case (i know how hard that can be) does it still happen with VA disabled?
Just to be absolutely clear about what is going on, I just uninstalled VA-X from my system, and now all of the uncommanded jump behaviour has disappeared.
Just disabling VA does NOT stop the uncommanded jump problem - it has to be completely uninstalled. This was the same behavior that was fixed previously with VA 6.0.0.1104.
Feline: If you are having difficulty reproducing this, drop me an email and let's set up a time where you can remote desktop into my machine and try it yourself. Have you tried it with my exact installed setup? It's possible the beta version you've been using doesn't exhibit the problem at all
Frank
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fpaynter
Junior Member
13 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2005 : 10:48:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by fpaynter
quote:
Originally posted by feline
the real test is, once you get a reproducible case (i know how hard that can be) does it still happen with VA disabled?
Just to be absolutely clear about what is going on, I just uninstalled VA-X from my system, and now all of the uncommanded jump behaviour has disappeared.
Just disabling VA does NOT stop the uncommanded jump problem - it has to be completely uninstalled. This was the same behavior that was fixed previously with VA 6.0.0.1104.
Feline: If you are having difficulty reproducing this, drop me an email and let's set up a time where you can remote desktop into my machine and try it yourself. Have you tried it with my exact installed setup? It's possible the beta version you've been using doesn't exhibit the problem at all
Frank
OK, I re-installed VA-X (all default settings, and I said 'YES' to the keybindings question) and the uncommanded jump behavior is back. Interestingly though, for a few seconds I thought it was cured, as I could not make the jump happen at all. Then, after I dragged my text selection around a little bit, it started happening again, and after that I could cause the jumps at will.
The only thing I can think of that may have triggered the behavior is that I dragged the selection to the edges of the destination window to force the slow scroll that is normal and desired. Before that, I couldn't cause jumps, but afterwards I could - strange.
Frank
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
19021 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2005 : 3:20:37 PM
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right, i think i now have this, for two windows tiled vertically. i am testing on win2k, VC6 SP6, VA 1418
following on from your experiments i believe i now have the required steps.
* select text in the right hand window
* drag text into the left hand window
* once there move to the bottom of the window, to produce a slow controlled scroll
* now move the block of text back and forward between the windows, moving up and down each time, so you are not going across at the same height. each time you cross into a new window you get a random vertical jump - it is not really a scroll.
as you found, the slow controlled drag by moving to the bottom of the window seems to be the trigger. this has been the missing step for me. talk about the details mattering! *rolls eyes*
re-testing with VA 1426 i am getting a small horizontal jump in one window, but not the other. it seems to jump so far sideways, and then on later drags it may jump back again.
however i have not been able to reproduce a horizontal jump with 1418.
case=842 |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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fpaynter
Junior Member
13 Posts |
Posted - Oct 25 2005 : 8:24:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by feline
right, i think i now have this, for two windows tiled vertically. i am testing on win2k, VC6 SP6, VA 1418
following on from your experiments i believe i now have the required steps.
* select text in the right hand window
* drag text into the left hand window
* once there move to the bottom of the window, to produce a slow controlled scroll
* now move the block of text back and forward between the windows, moving up and down each time, so you are not going across at the same height. each time you cross into a new window you get a random vertical jump - it is not really a scroll.
as you found, the slow controlled drag by moving to the bottom of the window seems to be the trigger. this has been the missing step for me. talk about the details mattering! *rolls eyes*
re-testing with VA 1426 i am getting a small horizontal jump in one window, but not the other. it seems to jump so far sideways, and then on later drags it may jump back again.
however i have not been able to reproduce a horizontal jump with 1418.
case=842
Yay! Success - sort of  .
Frank
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ether
Tomato Guru
USA
130 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2005 : 07:27:46 AM
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Why do you use drag and drop to edit code??? Why not just copy the selected text with Ctrl-C and the paste it into the target with Ctrl-V??? I'm just curious here, so don't get upset.
Personally, I find it takes longer for me to reach for the mouse when I already have my hands on the keyboard. I select the text with the keyboard in the source window, Ctrl-Tab to the target window, place the cursor where it needs to be and then paste. I seldom touch the mouse while coding. Now, if I'm editing graphics, that's a different story. I guess that's just me. |
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
19021 Posts |
Posted - Oct 27 2005 : 6:19:41 PM
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some people seem to be quite, or very keyboard oriented when coding, certainly i am 
yet other people use the mouse as much as possible. if you don't know the required keyboard shortcuts using the mouse does makes more sense, but beyond this it is just down to personal preference as far as i can see. |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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jpizzi
Tomato Guru
USA
642 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2005 : 12:46:57 AM
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| Can you block select (hold down ALT while selecting a rectangular section of the code) with the keyboard? I don't think so. At the very least, this is one reason to drag-n-drop. I already have the text selected using the mouse, just drag it to where I want to move it (or copy it, if you hold the CTRL key when dropping). |
Joe Pizzi |
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ether
Tomato Guru
USA
130 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2005 : 07:07:45 AM
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Nope, can't block copy with just the keyboard. I almost never do it, but, when I do, I only touch the mouse to make the selection. After that, Ctrl-C (Ctrl-X if it's a cut), maybe Ctrl-Tab to another window, move the cursor with the keyboard, Ctrl-V. I'm just faster this way than with the mouse. Probably comes from years of coding without a mouse connected to a system (IBM PC/XT type PCs in DOS).
Anyway, I was just curious as to why someone would do it and I believe feline covered it. I think we hijacked this topic enough... ;) |
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fpaynter
Junior Member
13 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2006 : 6:25:18 PM
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Feline,
Any progress on this (case 842)? I looked through the bugfix/update list up to 1438 and didn't find anything relevant AFAICS.
TIA,
Frank
quote:
Originally posted by feline
right, i think i now have this, for two windows tiled vertically. i am testing on win2k, VC6 SP6, VA 1418
following on from your experiments i believe i now have the required steps.
* select text in the right hand window
* drag text into the left hand window
* once there move to the bottom of the window, to produce a slow controlled scroll
* now move the block of text back and forward between the windows, moving up and down each time, so you are not going across at the same height. each time you cross into a new window you get a random vertical jump - it is not really a scroll.
as you found, the slow controlled drag by moving to the bottom of the window seems to be the trigger. this has been the missing step for me. talk about the details mattering! *rolls eyes*
re-testing with VA 1426 i am getting a small horizontal jump in one window, but not the other. it seems to jump so far sideways, and then on later drags it may jump back again.
however i have not been able to reproduce a horizontal jump with 1418.
case=842
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feline
Whole Tomato Software
United Kingdom
19021 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2006 : 4:02:44 PM
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| sorry to say, but no progress yet. it is in the list, but there are quite a few outstanding bugs at the moment. |
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness |
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Uncommanded window scroll when drag/dropping
